Gothic Modern Horror

Michael is joined by costume designer extraordinaire, theatre professor and horror aficionado Karsen Green to talk about the gothic aesthetic in 21st century horror. They define Gothic Horror and then discuss its influence on films such as WEAPONS, BARBARIAN and others. Then it's time for a deep dive into Guillermo del Toro's horror/fantasy PAN'S LABYRINTH and Robert Eggers' terrifying THE WITCH. This episode is Black Phillip-approved. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:00

It was the witch mercy. You speak a right. Thomason! It was I liar. Twas I what stole him. I'll be the witch of the wood.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Well, hey everybody, and welcome to Friday Night Frights. I'm Michael Huey. I'm a theater professor, author, actor, and I'm someone who strongly believes horror movies should be watched year-round. We in the past have talked uh a lot about films, and since I'm an actor and have sometimes uh directed, at least in the theater, I talk a lot about the actors, a lot about the directors, but today I have someone who is going to talk about the visual element of gothic horror films, specifically the gothic sort of influence on modern 21st century horror film. So I'm very happy today to be joined by Carson Green. Carson, welcome to Friday Night Frights.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

Hello, thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

So Carson is also a theater professor. So this is two theater professors on a podcast. This could get ugly.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

Oh, yes, of course. Terrifying.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

And uh Carson is also a costume designer, a really uh terrific costume designer. I've seen uh a lot of her work, and of course, a horror aficionado, as am I. So today we're, like I said, we're just gonna talk about the the Gothic influence, the gothic aesthetic that you see in modern horror films. And a little bit later in the episode, we're gonna kind of deep dive into two specific uh films that uh will kind of go spoiler-free uh for that, uh, if you have not seen these two, uh, which you absolutely must. So, Carson, the first thing I want to ask you is do you remember the first tar movie that you saw that made you go, oh my god, I love this?

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Well, um, I definitely was privy to uh clips and scenes as a child that I like snuck down to see that I probably shouldn't have at the time. But um I remember seeing a clip of uh the brothers Grimm um of this horse swallowing a child, and I was like, that's fascinating. I want more of this. But I would say that the first one that really made me fall in love with it was uh when my parents uh showed me Silence of the Lambs. I loved the psychological approach to the horror. Um and I just have always been in a fiction auto for things that are odd and interesting, like Edward Scissorhands and old retellings of Hansel and Gretel, kind of that like fantastical and horror and interesting and weird. And I was like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Yeah, it's interesting you say like uh, you know, uh Hansel and Gretel and stuff, because at least well, both of the movies we're gonna talk about later have sort of fairy tale, adult fairy tale elements in them, very much so.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

Yeah, yeah. So since we're talking about Gothic, that is, I actually uh Googled what is the definition of gothic and gothic horror, and I kind of went, okay. Some of that will I agreed with. But when I think of it, I mean, visually you think of like old stuff, like crumbling castles, decay, rot. In terms of story, you think of, you know, usually monsters, but also maybe doomed romance, forbidden romance. Um what do you think of when you think of Gothic, both visually and and uh in anything?

SPEAKER_02 3:33

Absolutely. I mean, I definitely agree with you. I feel like atmosphere is a lot of it. You know, I feel like what I see consistently visually is non-saturated, kind of dreary, isolated, crumbling, decay, um, maybe like claustrophobic sometimes in a way, while also sometimes having this like opulence about it. Um, and just this like creeping sense of unease and dread that is so delicious.

SPEAKER_00 4:03

Yeah, absolutely. Unease and dread. In terms of modern horror, do you see that influence a lot? That it in films that are we're gonna talk a little bit later about some out and out gothics. Uh, but do you see that influence in in films that are not say period?

SPEAKER_02 4:21

Oh, absolutely. I feel like, especially in more recent times, like this kind of idea of reframing psychological horror, and you know, whether it's uh something like Midsummer and resetting it in more of like a folk, like modern, but still like whispers and echoes of the past that we see come back, like religious undertones, absolutely, I've been noticing come up recently, um, which I feel like is often associated with gothic horror. And especially in the sound recently, I think that the sound and just this utilization of unease and elongated making you sit and watch something. I think of um Pearl in particular, a great movie, but uh end scene, and this is no spoilers, but there's just like a long shot of Mia Goth, the actress, wonderful, and smiling and just staring at the audience. And it's it makes you sit with it and it feels icky, but it there's just something so like mesmerizing about it.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

Yeah, yeah. And Mia Goth has incredibly striking features, which I can imagine can be either, you know, beautiful or potentially unsettling, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 5:35

Both.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

Yeah. At the same time.

SPEAKER_05 5:38

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

Yeah, yeah. So um so do you want to talk? I know um you were going to talk about you mentioned Barbarian, the Zach Krieger film.

SPEAKER_02 5:46

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

Can I ask you, uh, have you seen weapons?

SPEAKER_02 5:50

Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

Do you see any kind of gothic um in weapons?

SPEAKER_02 5:56

I would say um psychologically, yes. There something else that I I think we see a lot of come back is this um is it psychosis, is it psychological torment, or is it the supernatural? And I feel like in weapons particularly, you know, there's, and again, I will not give any spoilers, but uh these many, many children go missing, and people are trying to assign this um, you know, realistic reasoning for it. But then as you uh and the film shifts perspectives a lot, which is I feel like how they put this new take on it. Yes, and there's also this classic, like, you know, calling back to this witch kind of witchcraft and what that means perhaps in a modern light. So it's taking all these classic tropes and reframing them in a new way, um, especially with the shifting perspectives of the narrator, which I really love that new take on it.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was really an interesting part of that film. What do you think about her Gladys, the character that Amy Badigan played, or makeup?

SPEAKER_02 7:02

Oh my goodness. Talk about visually striking. Um, I watched it with my wife for the first time, and she uh said that she reminded her of a clown. Um, but I feel like that is so intentional, it's overdone, and it's trying to me, I felt like it's her trying to cling on to this past like beauty. Um, but it comes off in kind of a ridiculous but creepy way. I mean, and just her herself, there's a reason that she won the award for best supporting actress. Like, um, the way that she plays into this almost like kind of sweet, non-assuming and then terrifying character is just masterfully done.

SPEAKER_04 7:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

Yeah. And I feel like, yeah, that just the visual strikingness of her character in particular makes her stand out in in ways that you uh wouldn't expect.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know, we don't get a lot of backstory about that character and weapons. So maybe, I don't know, her makeup is kind of a way in to her, you know, what's going on with her or psychic, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

Certainly. And well, especially when you think about this classic like witch trope, um, which I of course we'll talk about the witch later. So we'll get a lot of witches. But in this clinging on to like past beauty and youthfulness, I feel like the makeup uh designer did a beautiful job of kind of bringing that to life, you know, um, while still kind of keeping her in some ways like, oh, maybe she's just a sweet grandmother. But no, no.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

No, it's it's so kind of grotesque. Yes, grotesque. So now I have not seen uh Barbarian.

SPEAKER_03 8:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

This is 476 Barbering, right?

SPEAKER_03 8:45

Yeah, I'm renting this place.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

I booked it a month ago.

SPEAKER_03 8:48

Are you sure you have the right place?

SPEAKER_01 8:50

What am I supposed to do?

SPEAKER_03 8:52

Why don't you come inside and we'll call these idiots? Why don't you just crash here?

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Oh no.

SPEAKER_03 9:05

I don't know if you got a great look at this neighborhood, but I don't think you should be out there by yourself.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

Which is uh another Zycrager movie. Yes. Uh from 2022. So talk about the the Gothic in that or um yeah, or anything.

SPEAKER_02 9:18

Absolutely. So uh Barbarian um takes place uh in this, I think it's an Airbnb kind of situation, but again, already setting our main character in a place that is isolated to her, you know, um, and there is this secret uh, you know, path that she leads down to this expansive like underground tunnel system and where horrors await her that I will not get too specific on. But I feel like there is a beautiful, grotesque, like skin-crawling monster figure at at one point that I feel like leans into definitely that kind of you know gothic paired with you know the isolation and the psychological. And um, you know, there's kind of this beautiful, like tragically beautiful story within that whole monster motif that I feel plays into classics like Frankenstein and whatnot.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I see I'm just looking at the cast list here. Bill Skarsgard is in it. Oh yes. Is is he the monster?

SPEAKER_02 10:24

Um, he oh goodness. I'm so terrible with actor names. Um but I I yes, I believe he is.

SPEAKER_00 10:32

He is, yeah, because he's Orlock and uh Pennywise and uh newish it film. So okay.

SPEAKER_02 10:38

The way he contorts his face is so perfect for, you know, playing up any sort of makeup, any sort of anything that he has, which is why we see him in so many like classically monstrous roles.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

Yeah, that that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Well, uh let's go into our our two films that we're going to talk about kind of in more in-depth. And uh these two films I think possibly could make a pretty decent double feature. They do have some things that are similar, I guess. Yeah. Um so the first one is, and these are uh uh films that that Carson brought to the table that she's especially a fan of, and I have to say I think these two are are really, really good movies. Uh and the first one is uh Guillermo del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth from 2006.

SPEAKER_07 11:22

In a dark time when hope was bleak. There lived a young girl whose only escape was in a legend that wanted her back. The legend speaks of the lost soul of a princess from another world who will one day be reborn.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

So I'm just gonna read the letterbox kind of summary, which is actually pretty good. Uh it says in post-Civil War Spain, which I think it's about 1940 or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 12:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

Ten-year-old Ophelia moves with her pregnant mother to live under the control of her cruel stepfather, who is a uh captain in the fascist government's military. Yes. And cruel is a bit of an understatement, I think.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

Certainly.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

Yeah. Uh so she, Ophelia, is drawn into a mysterious labyrinth. She meets a fawn who reveals that she may be a lost princess from an underground kingdom. To return to her true father, she must complete a series of surreal and perilous tasks that blur the line between reality and fantasy. So tell me about I I know you really love this movie. Tell me about why you like it so much.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

And absolutely. So I was first exposed to this film uh in high school. Um it is a Spanish film, and uh I took a class on uh, you know, uh Spanish filmography, and uh this is one of the um films that was brought to the table by my teacher. Uh so it was uh great for, you know, working on uh my Spanish and getting to see uh a classic genre that I just fell in love with. Um I think that what drew me in was just the weird and the whimsical, you know. I think that there's something so beautiful about marrying in a, you know, in this classic, grotesque way, the the striking and beautiful with the terrifying and all the cruelty, you know, there is a lot of cruelty and violence in this film. Um, and I think that especially having it from Ophelia's perspective, from the perspective of a child in this, you know, still kind of war-torn country, you know, with her very cruel stepfather, um, it beckons the question of is this labyrinth, is this fantastical story something that she's creating as a coping mechanism? Is it real, you know? Um, and how are how is her father as a character kind of reflected in these fantastical and terrifying trials that she goes through? How are they the same? Um, you know, what's more cruel, uh grotesque monsters who eat children or terrible fascist stepfathers who, you know, hurt people terribly. Um, there's this kind of like decaying atmosphere as well. It's it's isolating and it's scary, especially from the perspective of a child. So I think it was very smart to frame it in this way. And a labyrinth of all things, you know, makes a lot of sense as she's like delving deeper into trying to understand the world around her. Her mother is pregnant and very ill as well, you know. Uh she lost her father in the war. Um, so I think that all of these reasons are kind of what drew me into it. It's beautiful and fantastical and scary and dying, but there's also this motif of innocence and rebirth and new life.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

Yeah, yeah. And like so many of Del Toro's movies, it's visually sumptuous. I mean, it's beautiful, the the I mean you sort of have the sort of decaying, sort of old, you know, the labyrinth and everything, you know, contrasted with the sort of Spanish countryside and everything. Yeah. So uh could you want to talk about the So we have the Fawn, who is uh who again, we're not we're gonna try to not do too many spoilers here, but the Fawn is sort of is the the character who set Ophelia on her quests, um and is um uh kind and sometimes also, you know, hard to please. Uh and then we have the pale man, who is the real sort of scary monster. If you've seen uh the pale man is a character who has his eyes on his hands, and there's kind of that classic image of him putting his eyes, his hands up in front of his face so he can see. So you want to talk about the the look of those two different characters?

SPEAKER_02 15:56

Absolutely. And I think that what's really interesting about comparing those two in particular is one is significantly more uh strikingly scary than the other, but they're both unsettling in different ways. You know, the fawn, um, I'll start there. You know, we his visuals are akin to his environment, to the labyrinth. There is this kind of old foresty kind of life, but still decaying kind of um look about him that's whimsical and still very dark in tone. Um, but it's it's magical and it's hypnotizing a little bit. It makes sense, you know. I it would scare certain children, the look of this von absolutely. But Ophelia, I think, is drawn into it rather than terrified of it, as opposed to the pale man who, well, lives up to his name. He's very pale. Um, and in that scene, they have uh various almost uh folk gothic y kind of renditions of uh this character enacting, uh I will not be specific, but terrifying acts. Um and uh he facing the pale man is one of the trials that Ophelia is set upon. Um, and I think that just the design, the paleness, the seeing of the ribs, and then the eyeballs on the hands is out of any child's like deepest nightmare.

SPEAKER_05 17:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

Yeah. So I think that there are common threads between the two of them. But when you think about from the perspective of Ophelia from the child, it makes sense why she would be a bit more akin to the hauntingly beautiful thing and more terrified of the decrepit, um pale, scary man with eyes on his hands.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

Yeah, yeah. And um You know, something I I've said on previous um uh episodes. Uh I've talked about uh Terrence Fisher, who's a British director who directed um many of the great movies for Hammer of the British Studios. Do you know Hammer at all?

SPEAKER_02 18:05

I do not.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

Carson, I'm about to either open your eyes to something that will be great or something that you will hate. I don't know. Anyway. But Terrence Fisher used to say the films he made were uh adult fairy tales. Yes. And they have a certain look, there's, you know, color, I mean, the the the the visuals kind of draw you in. And I think a lot of Guillermo del Toro's work, you know, is like that. You know, that just I I mean, with the possible exception of the filmmaker we're going to talk about with the second movie, of all the filmmakers working today, I think he is has that gothic sensibility.

SPEAKER_02 18:46

Absolutely. And the uh uh the use of color in particular, because it is very, yes, I would say uh non-super striking colors. It's not like we're working with jewel tones here, you know. It's it's got this kind of dusty kind of feeling over everything. But the use of the color green in particular in Pan's Labyrinth, um, from the dress that Ophelia's mother makes her as a special, you know, that ends up getting ruined in events that I will not go into. Um it's again playing into this idea of decaying, but then also kind of new life and innocence and rebirth. Uh as opposed to, again, the pale man scene, which is not particularly green at all. You know, the devoid of color makes it feel othering and skeletal. And I feel like that is just so intentional and very well utilized.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

Yeah, yeah, that's really cool. I I just want to say uh Ophelia, who is really the protagonist, uh, is played by Ivana Baccaro, who was 11th, I think, when this movie was made. And she's amazing, I think. Uh from the first scene. I'm I'm with her. I'm I'm so seeing the film from her perspective. Uh and she is in the very first scene, she and her mom are driving to um to go to say with her horrible stepfather, and she has this stack of books. And her mom, who is sick and and and we're and having a a baby, um says, you know, we're gonna be in the countryside. Why don't you don't need to read? And I'm like, hold on to those books. Is that I mean, do you feel the same way about her?

SPEAKER_02 20:25

Oh, absolutely. I think that peering into her mind is so fascinating. And again, think about the world that she's in. Um, her mother who is sick with child, she's gonna be now with this stepfather who, you know, her mom is saying you need to call him father. Um, books are an escape. This fantasy life is her escape, you know, especially living in so much war-torn environment. It makes sense that she pours herself into these books and uses them as a um hoping for something better, more beautiful, more magical.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

Yeah, that's really nice. Yeah. Yeah, well said. So that's Pan's Labyrinth. Do you like some of his other movies, the Taurus movies?

SPEAKER_02 21:09

Um, it has been a hot minute since I have um touched on his other movies, but I am a big fan of his style. Again, the weird and the whimsical is very much in my realm. Yeah. Yeah. Do you have any favorites?

SPEAKER_00 21:22

Um I've seen The Devil's Backbone. The Devil's Backbone has been a while, um, which I think would make actually a pretty good double feature because I think it's set during the Spanish Civil War as well.

SPEAKER_05 21:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Um, so that would connect it um as well. Um you know, uh I like the Shape of Water. Have you seen The Shape of Water?

SPEAKER_02 21:39

Oh, that is a great one too. Talk about the weird and the whimsical.

SPEAKER_00 21:41

Exactly. Exactly. Yes. Uh there's a dance sequence with a uh creature from the Black Lagoon type of uh uh monster. Uh but yeah, uh we did an episode on his Frankenstein. Nice. And uh have you seen Frankenstein?

SPEAKER_02 21:54

Yes, I have.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

What did you think of it?

SPEAKER_02 21:56

I thought it was wonderful. I uh d I feel like it. kept um what was classic about the story but in a new light. I mean I love that so many people showed up were and were excited about it. And just the classic, you know, beautiful, grotesque monster, I didn't disappoint to me. So I really loved it.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Yeah, yeah, and a beautiful creation scene, which I think is how you kind of have to judge a Frankenstein film a little bit is what what happens in that creation scene. My daughter Lucy, who has uh come on the show a couple times to talk about Stranger Things, prior to Frankenstein, I knew Jacob Balordi through her telling me how much her friends were in love with him because of the no not the Kissing Booth movies, right?

SPEAKER_02 22:44

Oh, the kissing booth I thought you were going to say euphoria, which is also something that he's very well known for.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

Yeah, I don't think yeah uh I don't think Lucy's seen euphoria anyway. That's fair. That's so fair. But yeah, and he was kind of a revelation, I thought, as the creature. And I I I remember when we did the episode, I had read that Del Toro said the monster is kind of his personal avatar on life. Yeah. So that was kind of cool. I think he puts so much of himself in these films as a filmmaker. So that's that's really great. So we talked a lot about the beautiful colors in Pan's labyrinth. Now we're going to a film where color is taken and run away. Thrown out the door is the grayest movie you will ever see.

SPEAKER_02 23:28

It is so gray. Even the costumes there's so little detail and it's it but it makes so much sense.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

Yes and that is 2015's The Witch what one way out into this wilderness to find leaving our country Kindred our father's houses for what for the kingdom of God. Directed by Robert Eggers and it's important to note that when the title of the witch comes on it has a subtitle and the subtitle is a New England folktale. And I think we'll talk about that a little bit later. But here's the uh letterbox synopsis in 1630 a farmer relocates his family to a remote plot of land actually the farmer is kicked out of the the sort of I think they call it a plantation.

SPEAKER_02 24:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:22

And I get because he's he's too Puritan for the Puritans.

SPEAKER_02 24:26

Yes which is impressive.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

He's a hardcore Puritan Okay anyway so they are they are uh relocated to a remote plot of land on the edge of a forest where strange unsettling things happen understatement with suspicion and paranoia mounting each family member's faith loyalty and love are tested in shocking ways and that is the most obtuse possible synopsis I can think of of this movie.

SPEAKER_02 24:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

I think this is a movie we both really like tell me about your feelings about it.

SPEAKER_02 24:59

I I it is so deeply unsettling and it makes you sit with that and I just so adore it. I mean they we don't have as nearly as many characters as something like Pan's Labyrinth for example but it lets you kind of hone in on this family unit and um see how these terrifying very overly puritanical religious confines and the horrors within that shape the world of the children in this family unit. And again yeah these strange happenings start occurring things go missing people go missing um and it leaves you with that classic question which I absolutely love is are they going insane or are supernatural happenings amok?

SPEAKER_00 26:03

Yeah yeah um it it makes me think isolation is kind of um uh a key element of of gothic because these kind of shenanigans can't really happen I guess they can't happen in the middle of a city but it it's when you especially in this movie they are in the middle of of this forest and the forest is is is terrifying.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Yes it's expansive and it's gnarling and it again just the unsettling and the uneasiness. You know not every forest is terrifying some are quite beautiful but this one in particular with the branches and the visual design of everything feels suffocating um and confusing right like a labyrinth but you know not constructed by man. And I think that that's intentional, you know uh like you said I think that I agree that isolation is definitely a key factor to me in uh you know just gothic horror, modern or classic, whether it's psychological isolation or literal physical isolation, it makes the characters I feel helpless to a certain degree. You know, it increases the desperation and the dread and the sense of danger.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

And the audience as well because isolation freaks me out. Honestly so just to give a little more setup and I appreciate how you be you're just not not even touching any spoilers at all. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 27:28

I'm trying to be very careful.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

You are great you're great. But uh I think this is in the trailer one of the things that happens early on in this movie is Thomason who is played by Anna Taylor Joy and her character is kind of our our our touchstone in this I mean she's the one we side with uh absolutely she takes the baby of the family who I think his name is Sam I want to say it is yeah out in the forest and she's playing peekaboo with him and she covers her face and you know the baby laughs and then she covers her face and looks down and the baby is gone in a split second. And it is extremely upsetting. That's just the first weird thing that happens to this family.

SPEAKER_02 28:10

It's this movie is so good at building paranoia, I think Oh my goodness yes this creeping dread and this like even just the sound of whatever mysterious monster or presence uh you know that we gradually suspect more and more is behind all of the strange happenings is like a rustling of leaves which feels so small and yet when you hear that little like you know that it's there and you tune more into the sounds of the forest and that paranoia like you said builds of oh was that something or am I just paranoid? Am I just imagining it?

SPEAKER_00 28:47

Yeah. Yeah it's interesting I I think it's interesting he calls it a New England folk tale because when you see the title The Witch I mean from a modern perspective when you think of a witch in the seven a witch, I'm using air quotes, in the 17th century you think of some woman who may have been one or two steps out of the mainstream who was targeted by you know the men in the community and horrible things happened. And I mean we talked about weapons where we have a legit witch you know um who even looks creepy I mean right um but here the the threat of someone in this family is a witch or in league with the devil is a real feeling for these people.

SPEAKER_02 29:41

Absolutely especially in this especially with from the get-go the setup that they are so so conservatively and I would say aggressively religious that that is the ultimate betrayal in this family you know um they're very much of the mindset of everyone is a sinner and you must confess every single thing and uh there's this consistent feeling of shame and needing for over piety that this is the ultimate betrayal to the father, to the mother to anyone in the family. I feel like they use that kind of religious horror and religious paranoia even in the family to show how they turn on each other and become even more they're already physically isolated but even further isolated psychologically within this family Thomason in particular.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

Yes, absolutely it's and it's kind of heartbreaking and uh I just want to this has a great cast. It does and uh one person I just want to talk about is Kate Dickey who plays the mom. Oh and I feel I feel like she is could be sort of forgotten because there are a lot of great performances around her Ralph Inneson who has this voice that is the lowest deepest most gravelly voice I've ever heard plays the dad who is a complicated figure.

SPEAKER_02 31:01

But Kate Dickey as the mom just she just as horrible things happen to the family she crumbles and um yeah too we feel thoughts about her I love watching her arc and her unraveling and speaking of visuals her hair story is really fascinating. You know there's a a classic uh head covering at the beginning and then as her mind becomes more unraveled we see more and more of her hair and then um towards the end of the film we see her hair completely loose and wild which reflects the the happenings of the scene that that occurs in.

SPEAKER_04 31:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:43

So I think that that uh follows her the arc of her character. There's so much nuance and subtlety in what she does particularly in her you know relations to Thomason and and um you know within that family structure. So I think absolutely her this is a great example of a multifaceted and sometimes unappreciated performance.

SPEAKER_00 32:07

But I think we both can probably agree the greatest performance is from a goat called Black Phillip. Yes Black Philip Cargo's off his head Black Phillip Black Phillips Money Queen is winning which uh yeah I've read that Robert Edgar said he can't imagine filming a movie with a car. That that level of technology I I have not read this but I I'm assuming that Black Philip was an actual goat it couldn't be CGI. I don't think I think it was an actual goat and I mean it's this goat is is pretty scary I think you know from the first time we see Black Philip.

SPEAKER_02 32:51

Oh certainly he's got these massive horns on his head and uh as they you know get to their their new home their new attempted homestead um in the middle of nowhere by these very scary woods um we see the the twins two of the children start singing these songs about black Philip Black Philip and when you see that paired with this all black goat with these kind of like wandering beady eyes and these massive horns that do kind of look like a crown on his head it is a very kind of daunting figure and especially that use of like such dark black of the goat compared to everything else happening around them is you know it's very striking and a tune to the uh songs of We Children terrifying.

SPEAKER_00 33:44

Yeah no question no question and um I remember the first time I saw this movie I saw it not long after it came out and the ending is um just shocking and it is a it is a um a swing I think he takes Robert Eggers that could have been very goofy but instead it is I just think perfect and so well done. Do you remember your reaction the first time you saw him I jaw on floor was my reaction.

SPEAKER_02 34:17

You know, because again we could have gone entirely one direction in the is this psychological, is this actual supernatural and I think that the direction that they went is jarring but you're so bought into Thomason and rooting for her that I think that that's what made me kind of buy in even though my jaw was on the floor I was like you know what good for her.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

Yeah yeah yes exactly yes and I mean he calls it a New England folktale and I think I read at the time he said I just wanted to make a story like you might have read in the 17th century. But because we're watching it today we're so on her side and for those of you who've seen it the the choice that she makes at the end what else can she do, right?

SPEAKER_02 35:07

Exactly. You know, again um given everything that occurs in the movie it does make sense. And again paying paying a tribute to the actress she does a beautiful job that uh buys us and makes us want to be on her side that you do root for her even in how things you know tumble about in the end it it is wild and uh I don't think could have been called by many.

SPEAKER_00 35:34

No, no not at all. And I don't know how old um it I thought it was is it Anna Taylor Joy or Anya oh I'm not sure it's Anya it says Anya here. Oh yeah Anna Taylor Joy it is Anya sorry my bad I apologize if you're listening Anya Taylor Joy. Yeah I don't know how old see how old she was she was 19 when this came out but it's a really nuanced performance I think.

SPEAKER_02 35:59

Oh absolutely and the beauty is in the subtleties here. Again we mentioned that with the mother character as well but um and the cinematography does a great job of capturing all of that. And I think all of the gray and the plain around it allows us to focus in on her subtle you know facial reactions and the undertone of what's happening maybe in her mind amongst all of these wild trials almost that she's put up against in the middle of nowhere as the family unit slowly turns in on itself.

SPEAKER_00 36:33

Yeah.

unknown 36:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

Yeah I really like the witch I like it I like both of them. I really like the these two movies. Do you so high rec highest recommendations uh from us for uh Pan's Labyrinth and the witch and you know I remember when when which the witch came out I was like who directed this and um I have to admit I have not seen the Northmen or the Lighthouse. I need to see both of those but uh I I have seen Nosferatu twice and you've seen it. What what did you think of Notseratu?

SPEAKER_02 37:01

Ugh I thought it was fa again another great example of just acting um from the the leads the isolation the the terrifyingness this kind of like classic but also nuanced and kind of nude take on the look of the vampire I again I'm getting back to aesthetics because that's my line of work. But the makeup and the paleness and the desire to look like a corpse was just so captivating in terms of just the look of the classic Nosferatu. Which sometimes people uh looking back to the classic film think it looks a little like maybe ridiculous with modern eyes but they kept valuable features from it and made it into this new terrifying moment. And I uh they kept a lot of like the religious and like psychosexual undertones in the new one that I thought was done very, very well.

SPEAKER_00 37:57

Yeah yeah that's a great point about the look of Orlock. I remember there was a lot of um uh chatter online about the mustache which I love the mustache. Me too. And I mean he said he's a Romanian nobleman so he would have a mustache. If you know history, this is what you do as a designer.

SPEAKER_02 38:16

Yes and that's why I was like yes and I appreciate this. And uh the reason I bring up the corpse thing is because oh I forget what interview I saw with the uh hair and makeup designer um but there was look into how a corpse decays and what happens you know because in the folklore of that time, you know, that's exactly what vampires were were living reanimated corpses.

SPEAKER_04 38:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:39

So looking into what decays first, it's not your hair. So uh the keeping of the mustache um and uh keeping of his prior status alongside that, you know, might at first seem wild, especially compared to the non-mustache, you know, classic Nosferatu uh movie it was interesting and I feel like it kept alive the best parts and added to it.

SPEAKER_00 39:04

Yeah, yeah. I mean we're not creeped out by the 1922 look. We sort of go, okay, that's Nosferatu. But now I mean the the Orlock that he creates here is something that is repulsive and you do see all of him and uh in the light of day pretty clearly. So Carson I want to end uh just by saying well two things. First of all, the day we are recording this is Carson's birthday. So happy birthday Carson thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 39:33

I am happy to be here talking about one of my very, very favorite things which is horror movies.

SPEAKER_00 39:38

Well I appreciate it so much me and the entire Friday Night Fright staff uh appreciate it. Um could you give me your top three favorite horror films of all time?

SPEAKER_02 39:48

Okay yes okay and I had to really think about this um I would say I really do love Hereditary. I think Hereditary is one of those films that you just cannot stop thinking about when you leave it. Again beautiful acting performances and the curse the generational curse um and the aesthetics of everything is just beautifully done. And the gore gorgeous as a special effects makeup lover uh 10 out of 10. Another one that I really love because of the psychological element is us. And Lupi Dangon does a beautiful job with that one. More striking use of color and just the simple weapon of a pair of scissors is beautiful. And then oh don't be upset but it's actually a mini series instead of a film The Haunting of Hill House. Oh yeah by uh what's them Mike Flanagan is that yeah yes yes yes um is I mean I could binge watch that any any day of the week um but the subtleties and the I would say there's a lot of uh gothic translations of that as well um in the modern lens but it's one of those pieces of art that you can watch 10 times and still find something new and find like oh my gosh I never noticed that the first time whether it's like a just a figure in the corner or a a motif of a hand or something like that. So I'm always a fan of something that you can watch time and time again and still appreciate something new about it.

SPEAKER_00 41:25

Yeah that's really cool yeah I've uh I've not seen the Haunting of Hill House uh I've seen Midnight Mass.

SPEAKER_02 41:30

Oh that was yeah which is uh was really good I think he's doing um I want to say uh he's doing a new version of The Exorcist Mike Flanagan is oh yeah I believe so okay yes yeah yeah and then from Robert Eggers we have uh he's doing a werewolf movie which comes out this Christmas which nothing says the holidays like a werewolf right absolutely no and I love that we're seeing so many of these classic monsters brought back in in a modern light you know uh I think it's wonderful um and you also see like uh I'm from Florida originally so Universal Studios just reopened just opened Epic Universe and they have a whole portion of the park dedicated to their classic monsters.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

Fantastic. Yes Carson thank you so much for doing this this is a blast.

SPEAKER_02 42:15

Thank you so much I had a joy joyful time being here.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Good and thanks for spending your birthday with us. Hey folks uh please check us out on social media we're at Friday Night Brightspodcast on Instagram and Friday nightbrights uhbsky.social on blue sky i'm uh I would I should point out at this point that Guillermo del Toro did uh repost one of my posts on Blue Sky. So we're we're practically best friends.

SPEAKER_02 42:41

Oh of course obviously my good friend Guillermo del Toro.

SPEAKER_00 42:45

You know we'd love it if you subscribe, leave us a review. Thank you so much for joining us and I hope you all live deliciously